On Social Security Investment, Or, What About Chile?
With the election over, it’s time to move on to new things, and the folks at the Campaign for America’s Future have asked me to do some writing about Social Security, which sounds like some big fun, so here we are.
We’re going to start with some reasonably simple stuff today, just to get your feet wet; by the time we get a few stories down the road there will be some complicated economic analysis to work through—but let’s begin today by looking a bit south.
Those who support privatizing Social Security in this country often point to Chile as an example we could follow, and that seems like a good place to get the conversation going...so set your personal WayBack Machine to Santiago, May, 1981, and let’s see what we can learn.
“Of what avail are any laws, where money rules
alone,
Where Poverty can never win its cases?
Detractors of the times, who bear the Cynic's scrip,
are known
To often sell the truth, and keep their faces!”--Ascyltus, from Petronius’ “The Satyricon”
In 1981, Chile adopted a privatized Social Security-like (pension) program that requires most workers to contribute 10% of their income to a private investment account. They may contribute up to 20%. These accounts are maintained by a number of private companies (known as Administradoras de Fondos de Pensiones, or AFPs) that compete for the business by advertising directly to the investing public.
These providers charge commissions and fees for certain services which are paid on top of the contributions.
An additional 3% is collected from most workers for Disability Insurance; 7% more is deducted from wages for health care.
At retirement, the money is either used to purchase an annuity from a private provider to provide a steady source of income or it’s withdrawn at a set rate over time directly from the account.
Those who are self-employed do not have to pay into the system, but they have the option to do so if they’re so inclined.
If you don’t have enough in your private account to purchase an annuity or to withdraw steady amounts over time, but you’ve been contributing for more than 20 years, you will receive a minimum pension from the Chilean Government...but you will also lose any contributions you made to your private account.
AFPs are regulated as to how they may invest; if, through investment losses, they do not have enough money to capitalize the accounts they carry they must provide the money out of their own cash reserves. If they follow the rules, and still lose so many assets they can’t continue to operate, a government bailout is in order.
At the same time, a second “welfare” program (PASIS) was established to create a “safety net” that would provide a benefit of 75% of the poverty level or 25% of your last 10 years’ earnings, whichever is higher.
You can’t collect from both programs, but it is possible to collect from neither. More about that later.
Employers do not contribute to funding the system, however, all employers were forced to give 17% pay raises to their workers to come up with the money for the workers to make their contributions. (Chile was a military dictatorship at the time, making the “forcing” process much easier than it would be in the US today.)
The system is just turning 30 years old, and we’re now seeing the first big wave of workers who are eligible to retire.
So how has all this been working out for Chileans?
The first thing we learn is that the poorest workers probably won’t do well enough to qualify for “top tier” pensions, even though it’s projected that they’ll tend to pay for the benefit over their working lives...which will reduce their income over their working lives. (It’s also projected that workers with higher incomes should do reasonably well.)
Since most workers are poor (Chile has some of the most unequal income distribution on Earth), in the end it’s starting to look like the problems of finding enough money to support the social safety net are actually getting worse, and not better.
Additionally, other problems have come to light:
--You have to find money to “transition” from one system to another, and transition costs have been quite expensive indeed: 6.1% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP; that’s a measure of the total output of an economy) in the 1980s, 4.8% in the 1990s, and 4.3% until 2037. If we were to duplicate the Chilean experience in the US economy, 6% of the 2008 GDP (about $15 trillion) means about $900 billion annually in transition costs for the first ten years, and something north of $600 billion annually for the last 37 years of the exercise.
(Keep in mind that Chile only provides 2/3 of their population with either PASIC or a pension; since we cover a higher number than that in the US, expect those numbers to come in higher than we're guessing here.)
Why are so many not covered? Lots of workers are working outside the “official” economy to avoid making contributions that they won’t get back later (in 1994, it was estimated that only 52% of workers regularly contribute to their accounts); additionally, many women have never participated in the labor force.
--Because the service providers are competing for the business, administrative costs (read: advertising and sales commissions) have been far higher than in the US Social Security system, where administrative costs have been at .07% of distributions, or lower, since 1990. To put this another way, during the 1990s the US Social Security Administration was paying $18.70 per year to administer a claim; at the same time Chile’s various providers were paying an average of $89.10 to do the same thing.
--All that competition, some say, has lead to lots of changing of providers, which tends to make any investment program less efficient over time. (In 1996, half of Chilean workers switched providers; it’s estimated that reduced pension accumulations across the entire system by about 20%.) The Chilean Government made changes in 1997 to try to work through this problem, and they seem to have had some considerable effect.
Evidence suggests most of the switching not related to consolidation in the AFP business is being done by a small percentage of account holders, with some switching as much as eight times in a year; today the average Chilean seems to change AFPs about once every five years. Unemployment also seems to be related to switching; this because the unemployed can establish a new account with a lower set of fees if they move to a new provider.
--Many Chileans, despite living in a system that has, for almost 30 years, required them to manage their own money, actually know very little about that money.
Less than half know that the contribution rate is 10%, only 1/3 know how much (within 20%) is in their accounts, and, according to work done at the University of Chile, “few” actually know what they pay in fees and commissions.
--Those who end up in the welfare program are guaranteed 75% of the poverty level; that suggests that if you’re elderly and on welfare, you’re living in poverty. Because of limited funding, there are qualified elderly poor in Chile who do not receive any benefit.
Today, in the US, about 12% of the elderly live in poverty. Without the current Social Security system in place, it’s estimated that 49.9% of the elderly would have been living in poverty in 2002.
--In Chile, taxes to cover the transition costs tend to rise faster than the “assets under management” for most workers, leaving them less well-off than before—an effect that is most common among the “financially illiterate”...meaning, of course, most Americans. In other words, reform, in Chile, tends to help the wealthiest and best educated at the expense of those who are less of either.
That’s a whole lot of detail, so let’s pull pack and look at the “macro” picture:
Chile has operated a version of a privatized system since 1981, and for the most part the working poor will never see any benefit from the transition. Since Chile doesn’t have much of a middle class, it’s hard to see how the Chilean experience would affect our middle class.
The US Social Security system has reduced the estimated rate of elderly poverty from nearly 50% to roughly 10%; such a reduction in poverty did not occur in Chile with their privatization.
The costs of moving to the same system here, if our experience were the same as Chile’s, would run anywhere from $600-900 billion annually for at least 50 years. Of course, since we provide a Social Security safety net to almost all of our citizens, as opposed to 2/3 of the population, as Chile does, it’s reasonable to assume our costs would be more or less 1/3 higher.
Chile forced its private-sector employers to raise wages to cover the workers’ costs of transition; I’m aware of no proposals that would, or could, impose such a cost on employers in the US.
It appears that Chilean-style privatization encouraged about half the population to engage in “under the table” work, making the funding problem for the system even worse that it would be otherwise.
Frequent switching of account providers is great for the providers, as it creates lots of chances to collect fees for opening and closing accounts and the like—but it’s not so great for the account holders, who are losing up to 20% of their potential earnings more or less because maintaining a sales force and running lots of ads are effective business practices.
It is unknown what happens when a shock like the recent recession hits the system, and we are awaiting research that will help us understand what happens when and if the State is required to refund losses incurred by the AFP if they “follow the rules” but still lose so much money that they lack sufficient capital to operate.
The costs of operating the PASIS program go up even as the cost of operating the retirement accounts are also still high, and the question of whether Chile can continue to expend “safety net” coverage to the 30% of the elderly poor who are not covered remains unknown.
So there you go: there are going to be lots of proposals to privatize Social Security this year, “getting a Chilean” may well be one of the options you hear Conservatives promote—and hopefully by now you have some idea why this doesn’t look like nearly as good an idea as some folks would tell you it is.
Next time, we’ll talk about proposals to invest Social Security money in Treasury debt, and whether such an effort is actually an investment at all.
It’ll be at least medium geeky...and hey, who doesn’t love that?







ok...
...so most of us hated yesterday...but you know what?
now it's today, so get up, cork those bottles, and let's get back to work.
"...i feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." --tom lehrer, january 1965
interesting
I'm just trying to wrap my head around the fact that Republicans would promote a system that doesn't appear to work for the working poor. Good to have this info for background. I'm sure we will need it at some point.
***************************
Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.
you bet you will need this...
...as it is among the actual proposals the cato folks and their...can i say cabal...have been promoting since the 90s, at least.
"...i feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." --tom lehrer, january 1965
Perhaps some common ground is in order?
First, my opinion of the current situation. SS is currently running a deficit and it doesn't look to be getting better thanks to the economy and early retirees. It went red last year for the first time and it's been having red months for about two years now. There are also no "real" assets in the trust fund. I'm not saying it's bankrupt because the US will never default on the special issue tbills in the trust fund.
We will either:
a) borrow more money. In which the SS trust fund goes from intra-government debt to public debt and not much changes except we actually have to start paying interest on that portion of the debt and more money is sucked from somewhere.
b) we raise SS taxes to get the program out of the red and punt the problem just like Reagan did in the early '80s.
c) we raise general taxes to redeem the trust fund instead of additional borrowing.
d) we print more money.
e) we change the benefits. (raise retirement age, means test, reduce payments/COLAs)
Those are our choices. As SS stands currently, it ain't working. It is an issue and it needs to be addressed. I'm up for more options but I don't see them.
On Privatization...It sucks. Social Security has a problem because of the baby boomers. It's a problem because it's a demographic wave that is very large and they'll all hit the system at the same time. Imagine now if they all had their money in the stock market and begin to retire and they all start taking their money out of the stock market? What's that going to do to the markets? Just as the current system in which current workers pay for current retirees and will end up with nothing...a privatized system will have the EXACT same thing happen except our private equity markets will be FUBARED along the way. It has nothing to do with market risk or crap like that. It's all about the demographics and a privatized system would not be any kinder to us, in fact it would be far worse because the demographic wave would destroy our stock markets.
This is one of the things that has be so frustrated with Price because his attitude is that SS is fine. Nothing to see here. Move along. When we all know it's not fine. It's a serious issue and it deserves a serious conversation. Demonizing privatization is fine, because it deserves it, but you've also got to propose something that will work.
just to bring a bit of math to the thing...
...the oasi trust fund actually took in about $807 billion and paid out $669 billion in 2009. don't have the full 2010 numbers yet, but i presume the same will occur.
after paying interest on the debt they're holding, the oasi trust fund had $19 billion more in assets at the end of the year than on january 1; all this according to the report of the trustees of social security.
"...i feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." --tom lehrer, january 1965
Taking the income cap off would solve the problem in one move
Should have been done long ago.
Do good. Be nice. Have fun.
Tax the rich
...is that your only answer?
Taxes on the rich are already going up 1/1/2011. By quite a bit. Removing the SS cap will raise their taxes another 6.2%. Now they are looking at a 10% tax increase at a minimum. Probably even more than that if you factor in that state and local taxes are also going up.
At which point does "Tax the rich" begin not to work all that well or creates more damage to the economy than the problem you are trying to solve. Just trying to have an honest discussion here. A 6.2% tax hike on anyone making over 105k? 110k? whatever the cap is now is a pretty hefty tax hike.
The rich
Republicans are in charge now. The rich will be very happy. Indeed, as a rich guy myself, my personal financial picture will look a lot brighter over the next couple of years, that is until class warfare raises its ugly head.
The cap on income related to SS is the single most regressive policy our country has. You look at lifting the cap and see a "hefty increase in taxes." I look at the change and see a solution that would stabilize a program that offers great and enduring public good.
What's your proposal?
Do good. Be nice. Have fun.
My proposal?
The pragmatist if I were actually elected and had to try and get passed...?
* Means test benefits so that the rich aren't drawing from the system.
* Increase the full benefit retirement age and a slight increase in the initial retirement age.
I'm not sure how much time that would buy us, but I'd say it's a good start. The solution has to be based in paying out less in benefits, not bringing in more revenue, imo.
The benevolent dictator in me...?
* Call the SS trust fund what it is, accounting fiction. Get rid of it.
* Switch SS to a "pay as you go" system with an automatic increase in SS taxes (on everyone) each year to pay out anticipated benefits.
* Also do the two things I mention above
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To me the SS Trust Fund has led to a lot of our financial issues over the past 30 years as all it does is funnel SS tax money into the general fund to be spent by our congress critters. It has allowed our government to overspend more than it should and claim smaller deficits than they are in reality. It's bad mojo.
Um . . .
taxes on everyone are going up next year if nothing is done.
If we pass something like Obama's proposal, the 3% increase would only affect income over about $250k for individuals and around $450k for joint filers. The middling rich (those with incomes between $200k and about $1 million) will actually do quite well under such a scheme, in comparison with simply letting the Bush tax cuts expire.
Ditto for the the SS cap. It will likely only be raised, not removed (provided we don't simply slash benefits instead), meaning that the 6.2% will only apply to a portion of the income of some very rich people. Since SS is a flat tax that applies to all income under the cap, raising the cap is also essentially a marginal tax rate increase - it's only an "extra" tax for income over the cap. Maybe there can be some sort of doughnut hole where the cap remains at $96k, but then there's an additional SS contribution for folks making more than $250k or something. I'd agree that there's a substantial difference between taking home $250k after taxes and taking home $225k (90%), but that's nothing compared to the difference between taking home $225k and taking home the state's median (household! pre-tax!) income of $46k.
So - at what point does "Tax the rich" begin not to work? When it prevents the wealthy from either a) working, or b) investing in enterprises that actually provide some value to the economy. I find it hard to believe that going from $400k a year to $350k in AGI, say, would be that much of a disincentive to work. And there's a lot of investing in derivatives, CDS's, MBS's, and hedge funds that we could probably do without, given that they seem to be mostly vehicles for for fraud and exorbitant risk that the public has been suckered into covering.
good questions...
...so let's give it a shot:
as was pointed out here, income taxes will go up for those making $250,000 or more...unless no deal can be made on raising taxes above that level, when all income taxes go up...or the democrats cave, and taxes don't go up at all.
but here's a more fundamental question: why are taxes going up?
income taxes are going up...as they should...because they've been artificially depressed for ten years now, as the insane bush tax cuts played out.
are you upset about the ongoing budget deficits?
guess why we have a giant national debt?
it's because we never paid for about $8 trillion worth of stuff we bought over the past ten years--and if you want to fix that, it's gonna cost something like $8 trillion, plus interest, minus inflation.
republicans want to tell you that they will somehow cut the budget to get there...but they have no actual plan.
now as it turns out the wealthiest of americans got a giant benefit from all of this as our debt became their gain. the last ten years have created a situation where most wealthy folks pay far less in taxes on far higher incomes than they ever did before...so folks who have incomes above $250,000, who have been subsidized by the rest of us for at least the past decade, are indeed just going to have to suck it up and deal at some point, and the sooner the better.
so let's talk about social security and medicare and that cap:
if you make $120,000, for example, you would see the increase in the taxable limit affecting $10,000 of your income, and that means $1260 in new taxes.
that's not an easy sell...but if you want us to pay for 100% of your social security and medicare coverage out of taxes, why shouldn't 100% of your income be taxed?
that seems like a reasonable social bargain, and i think it's one that we can sell to voters, "no new taxes!" notwithstanding.
"...i feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." --tom lehrer, january 1965
i don't know if that's true...
...my impression was that removing the cap gets you about 30% of where you need to go--and i will try to get better numbers on this--and with that in mind, i would be looking to means testing as another component of a solution.
others propose raising the retirement age; i'd prefer not to do that if it's possible to "get there" by other means.
additionally, there are those who would tell you that getting the tax rate to about 14.5% from today's 12.6% would accomplish the same thing.
"...i feel that if a person can't communicate, the very least he can do is to shut up." --tom lehrer, january 1965